Six Cylinder Turbo information

Does anyone have or know of a cool Six Cylinder Turbo set up? :p

Take a look at this 54 stud with a 292 turboed @ http://www.customdesignperformance.com/ Mind you This Does Not have a Stock L6 Head It has a set of V8 heads cut and Rewelded. But it is Turbo charged

Image from a 4/68 Hot Rod about an Olds factory project.

can or would u Email me a copy of that Pic and what ever else you may have to go with it? Thanx

Leo Santucci's Inline Power Manual has a chapter on turbos on inline Chevs.

Boy this idea is sure looking good, especially for a car you want to drive a lot, like me.
Turbo Chargers are known to add 15% better mileage (providing you can keep your happy foot out of it) and imagine the power to weight ratio?

What companies out there have a ready to go unit? :cool:

James

could the origonal w/101 000 m 6 cyl handel a turbo? if so howmuch will it set me back ?

I love turbo charged engines. I have owned 6 turbo Buick Regals. I was involved with the '86/'87 Buick Grand Nationals and T Typs for the time they were new. I have a few in line Chevy's tucked away for a future turbo project. It is not a very difficult project. There is tons of info. on line regarding in line six turbo charging.

I love turbo charged engines. I have owned 6 turbo Buick Regals. I was involved with the '86/'87 Buick Grand Nationals and T Typs for the time they were new. I have a few in line Chevy's tucked away for a future turbo project. It is not a very difficult project. There is tons of info. on line regarding in line six turbo charging.


cool could you post a couple of links please?

Yes please post "Turbo Six" articles. Don't turbo's like stock cams? Don't turbos like low compression. therefore wouldn't a turbo like a relatively stock engine!
Wouldn't a turbo six go great with an automatic?

Wouldn't Turbo Six = V8 power easily?

See...I have a ton of questions. This will be fun. :) :chev:

James

Yes the Turbo Likes closer to stock style cams and Pretty much Like a baby blue (NOS) running a 112-114 lobe seperation and NOT a Long/Big duration cam so you have to watch the duration. The lift is not a big of a issue as duration and Lobe seperation. and Like any motor the Lower the compression is, the Higher Boost/PSi you can run. Also you have to watch over all timing. so some kinda of timing control is good to have. with the more boost/psi that you want to use.

walking have a good day

I wish i'd have held off on the LT1 and gotten one of the late model trailblazer/envoy 6 bangers to put a turbo on.. My bro got one the new trailblazers off the lot, i just wanted to check out the motor.. with some wrecking yard calling, some custom pistons, a turbo and alot of aspirin it could be sweet... I'd just love to leave the 6 Cyl badges on and run over a few v8's with it.. :D Concept trailblazer (http://www.motortrend.com/future/concepts/112_0203_blazer/) Another link (http://www.tyguy.net/gmc_2004tb_tt.htm)

Im in the process of collecting parts to do a twin turbo set up on a 327 for my 65. There is a lot of info on the web. just do a serch for turbo nova and/or junkyard turbos. You will get a ton of info. the best book is MAXIMUM BOOST by Corky Bell.
This will take some time to do, because i need to get the car running first. pulled it out of the desert and it's been sitting for 20+ years.

Anybody know of any junkyard donor cars. From what I know about turbos it is generally best to get one of a similarly sized (breathing) engine. So first calc puts a 194 in the 3.1L range.

I can see that the buick turbo is for a 3.1L motor (garret t-25) but im guessing these aren't easy to find.

From what I can tell common turbos would be the chrysler 2.2 liter, maybe some volkswagen ones as well

I would also say that to be on cheap and safe side to plan on running a low amount of boost maybe 5-6psi (no clue what kind of power gains you would see)

Anybody know what to grab from a junkyard car. Seems like you would need the turbo, a wastegate, and maybe some oil lines. Then it seems like a simple matter of re-tubing the exhuast get a manual boost controller (maybe) and connect the turbo to the carb via a sealed inlet.

arndog

This is an old science and the I6 is an old engine and easy to adapt to this. I will defienelty do some major research and phone calls on this. I'll bet it is going to be easier than I thought to suit up a Six with turbo. A LOT EASIER than to do the same with a V8.

Later

JK

it WILL be easier and cheaper to do with a six compared to doing on an 8, but i bet i have tons more power with my built 383....i am not saying don't do it, i think its an awesome idea. Don't think its going to be as easy as you think it is though ;) , there are a lot of things to take into consideration....you will need boost controllers and timing retarders and if you run more than 7 or so psi, i think you should have an intercooler, what carb (if carbed), then you need a blowthrough box, etc etc...

also some cheap turbos would be the t3/t4 and mitsu t04e or something similar to that....just for example, this is an old ad, took one second of searching on the honda site below...do not reply to the ad
http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=905145 ....just to show what you can get for a couple bucks....
look at import sites for cheap turbos....but you need to figure out your final goal, how much boost, max rpm, useage, you need to make/find a manifold, downpipe, wastegate, you need gauges, a million dollars, you need to build it then trade for my nova ;) :D

www.hondamarketplace.com

For me personally the goal would be to keep it simple. Choose a boost range that gives some sort of power increase (any would do) but minimizes complex options. The idea would be to keep the costs low as possible in order to rationalize the cost staying with a 6 cylinder versus going to a V-8.

Id be up for remote mounting it in order to minimize complexity.

anybody have boost figures for what a turbo would gain you. Meaning say I have a stock tired 194 I put 5 psi of boost on it ... what is the horsepower gain?

I would think 25 horsepower would be an excellent power gain especially if it is at the cost of less then 200 bucks.

arndog

In this months hot rod mag they have the fastest pump gas drags, there is a car in there, I think an early nova, with a turbo 6 with the basic motor out of a newer trailblazer that I think ran 9's. Very quick, I was impressed. Made me think I should be getting one.

Jon

Each engine is different so HP for boost will vary. On average the turbo Buick's would see around 10-15 HP per each pound of boost. It all depends on the build up.

After reading this:http://www.ststurbo.com/products
I6 novas were the first cars that came into my mind. The cars has plenty of space if you want it up front and if you want it in the back the original exhaust setup would work great also. I like the idea of not needing an intercooler.

Good thing that there are a lot of new parts out there for straight six. Here are two sites I visit to see what's up now and then:

http://cliffordperformance.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=CP

http://www.inliners.org/

wow those boost numbers sound great. I understand fully it depends on the engine but it seems like it should be possible to run 5psi of boost or less (keep additional tuning items to a minimum) and get a good gain.

Im thinking $10 per horsepower is a pretty good price.

also wanting to keep this on the top

arndog

here is a very similar set up on a slant six. low budget decent gain and a real life experience ... looks like he used the common chrysler turbo as well

http://www.slantsix.org/articles/turbo-article/turbo-article.htm

arndog

Gents,
I think we are on to something here. I honestly believe accomplishing this in my own garage is a reality.

I think if I search out the right little hairdryer (turbo) and keep the psi low AND add a good intake and carb combo (or possible TPI) I can squeeze 25-35 horse and that would be just to start.

First order is to get my 250 in and ready for this transformation.

Thanks for the info guys and I expect this will take me 6 months to accomplish, but the wheels are turning!

the big questions for me are

Do I need I boost controller? I don't think you do ... Seems like a wastegate would work

How to manage fuel pressure?

How to manage oiling?

Ideally grab a turbo from the junkyard with a wastegate and then deal with fuel pressure and oiling.

Im thinking the remote idea for ease of mounting,no need to buy muffler, cheaper?

arndog

You can have preset boost settings or control the boost for inside the car. With the turbo Buick's I used a Norgen air bleed valve to control boost for m inside the car and tucked it under the dash. This is an inexpensive way to increase or decrease boost. There are several controllers on the market. Some like the digital and electronic controllers which work well also. Not to mention the alcohol injection to help with spark knock and increased boost on pump gas. There are various options with a turbo set up. This is not a complicated set up and it will produce an amazing performance gains.

Im going to be trying to do this on the cheap. For me if the cost creeps anywhere even close to a quarter of the V-8 swap Im out.

Looks like the chrysler turbo came with an actuator / wastegate that will limit the boost to 7 psi. I think this sounds perfect.

Anybody have ideas on where to tap in the oiling system?

How about the a similar modification to a chevy fuel pump as described in the dodge article above

arndog

Arndog,
I printed the turbo artice on the slant six. I know that it will come in handy. The welding does not scare me, just making mistakes and going back again till it is right. I have a welder one block from the house so I will be working on him to help with the project.

I would love if one of the major Turbo Shops (Turbo City) would get into this and realize that there are millions of these engines around and what fun it could be to develope something as usefull and easy to make a kit for.
But I know when done I will be proud of my backyard turbo job.

I think the best plan is (like youself) to make it simple and cheap with expectations generally low. Then I can tweak for more power later. Hmmm alchohol injection???? I am all over our friends on this site including Twisted6 and am feeling out the Turbo Compnaies for info now.

Hey, If they can make a kit to fit a Jeep with a 4.0L inline then why not the most popular 6 ever made?


James :D

in leos book he lists a couple of companies that did some work on a system for a turbo but didnt mention any prices. when I get home ill look them up and post their names

The reason there is no prices in the book Is because pricing can always change In which we all know it does. There is being another 1000 printed as I type this message. And then There will be a Updateing to the book in about a yr.or so. I hope to have a few more Intakes added in and a few other things. As i already have two Intakes In this book But only one shows my name along with the Intake. :) it's all good .

I have a tube bender and need an excuse to buy the largest die possible. I could either fully remote mount or psuedo remote mount the turbo ... maybe just a short piece from manifold to turbo to clear engine compartment things. I have a feeling the doghouses will make it pretty cramped in there.

Another option would be to make an adapter using the stock exhaust manifold. Im thinking mill or grind the outlet flat ... use some flat stock to make an adapter and there you go. The goal would be to decide on a junkyard turbo that is readily available (Im going with the idea of the chrysler one for now even though I haven't even been to the junkyard yet) This would allow you a system where you could unfortunately go through turbos pretty easy, but in a good way. Im thinking pull-a-part ($50 bucks) if it doesnt work get another or take it back as long as it fits the adapter the swap shouldn't be difficult.

Im not affraid of the welding either and if the manifold is cheap enough from the junkyard I might just go that route.

arndog

I know there are a lot of resources for parts for turbos, but this guy at this company has been real nice and even said they can custom make some flanges and such if we need.
Someone farther along the design trail like Twisted or Arndog should follow up and see if they can really help. Maybe Twisted will get into the Turbo Six business???? Yeah!!! :D

His name and contact info is:

Jesse@tubo-kits.com, Jesse Pellagatto, www.turbo-kits.com

Ill be going the cheap route. I have the tools and some pretty solid fab skills.

Haven't priced out turbos at my local pull-a-part but they have to be cheap. Im hoping to stay in the $200 range.

Id also like it to fit stock ... Maybe Ill make a kit :). Im thinking when my 194 goes out the window I can swap in my 230 bolt on and go.

arndog

let us know how it goes and give us lots of pics.... if it works out and you make kits you will probably be busy for awhile, I might even be interested in one by next spring,....keep us posted

Dog, whatever you come up with...even if it only adds 30hp...I'm in. Take pictures, take notes. I don't intend to spend $1500-2000 or I would have bought a crate 383.
I want to convert my low compression six into a decent 250hp mill. I think it is possible to go this route and cheap too. I believe in this direction. I have seen many lil Sport Compacts turn 95horse into 200 horse. I think the I6 already has the makings of a great turbo car. Some guys have been doing it for many many years. So I wanna believe it can happen.
If you get this right I will even pay to see you plans and copy them.
Get in thee Dawg!

Twisted 6 are you far behind? With your wild "Lumps: and cool "Engine" Intakes this has got to be up your alley.

James

what do you mean am i far behind? with my lumps? They're done and ready and have been going out the door. some intakes are on back order. with in the nexts few mos I hope to have my NEW intake built and get it all welded up. with a removable top plate for different carb combos. Built from 6061 billet which should be A big Bunch lighter then my steel sheet metal intake. heheh ;) as i get closer to the welding stages of it I'll start taking pics of the new intake like i did my sheet metal one. But i also plain to make one with shorter runners which should be even more street friendly (meaning more low end to mid range performance) even though the sheet metal did better then i thought it would have on the street with the cam i had in it.Seeing that THAT intake was first made for The motor & cam combo I'm doing right now.

I sent you a reply to your last Email James/freds but for what ever reason it came back saying could not deliver.

was joking about the kits :D

Im going to go the route of

building a clean system from junkyard parts so I can swap in my 230 when the 194 blows up

The other goal is to keep it cheap as possible, which means minimal power gains

On a side not I will take lots of pictures a document it the best I can

arndog

Twisted I meant You have already developed so much for the I6, this should be your next Goal. Dude you are a I6 Hero!!!
A Sweet turbo Kit for the I6? Has your name all over it!
I have a deposit ready for the first one off the assembly line!!!

just wanted to post to follow this thread.i kinda like the idea of turboing my 230 in the wagon ;) since its the "wife's" car and she wants a six.

The thought has crossed my Mind But Not cost effective to do so. As the Market it self for any Perfomance parts, is slim. There are not that many Buying parts as one may think And this is what Makes the Market/Parts so high. It just doen't have the turn over as the V8 stuff Years ago the inline Had lowwer prices But as the V8 market took over Those that did make 6cyl perfomance parts slowly died off. there are still only a hand full of people who still do R&D on these motors. That is how I got into doing what I do is because of the high cost of some stuff Or just not out there for what I wanted. Yes some of the V8 parts can be used, (pistons, carbs, Trans,Stick Or ATs, clutchs) Even that is not enough Yeah intakes,headers(some) maybe closely priced. But Like Mike Kirbys Head it is priced so high That The average guy can't touch One the same with taking the Time and money Spent to Cut and weld Up a V8. So hoping a L6 up for Real High performance is realy to the die hard L6er. But for a daily driver with some added Kick It's not that hard or costly to as a v8 But no You may not see the same gian with the same Bucks spent on a v8. But it stands to what You want, Or what your really after.

after doing some reading the turbo option seems very doable especially if you have an automatic.

still looking for ideas on cheap fuel delivery. Somebody correct me if Im wrong but it seems like you would simply need the psi your carb requires + boost. Furthermore I think that if you install a return line it is just that easy. Any thoughts

also wanted to keep this at the top.

arndog

Okay Arndog, I may never have the $ to do this. But if you happen to pull this off with the small amount of $hekles you claim I am a believer.

I bought the Leo Santucci book and am mesmerized by the turbo section. Blow thru or Pull thru? Cheap to do the carb up fron and turbo behind it. No intercooler and easy to make. Not as much power , but let's be sensible, how much do you expect?

I am pretty sure I will take the 194 head I have, add some of Twisted 6s Lumps and get a major valve job. Match it up with a cool cam and addan Offy manifold, 390cfm and some headers. That much will give me a kick in the pants and that's probably all I need. But if a turbo could add another %15 horsies after that???? Hmmmmmmmm.

Go Dog Go!!!! :cool:

Here is the catch with my plan ... You have to get a good "running" turbo from a wrecking for a low cost. Make sure it comes with a wastegate.

That being said if you can fabricate some flanges and an exhaust it is "simple".

The chrysler turbos are designed to give around 8psi of boost. Im not sure of rpm for the number but that is pretty good. The downfall is doing the calculation a 194 needs a little more flow then the turbo was designed for.

The upside to the smaller turbo is less lag. The downside is it won't flow enough at high rpms. Good thing Im not going for peak performance.

Oil to the turbo looks pretty simple as long as you put the the inlet and outlet vertical and use a good size line for the return.

Definitely going the blow through route (turbo,carb,intake). The maximum boost book, the way I read it, says that draw through (carb,turbo,intake) is a waste.

Anybody know what a 194 red lines at?

I currently have a weber carb on my 194 and I am crossing my fingers that the only change I will have to do is solid floats. Im currently banking on the fact that the weber likes a low fuel pressure (2-3 psi) and the stock fuel pump I think puts out I think 6-8. The other advantage is the weber I believe is a higher cfm then stock.

Does anybody know the stock fuel pump pressure of a straight six?

arndog

Hey yall

Here is your first obstacle- the turbo Header/manifold. I am not aware of any being built for chevy i6's. They may be out there but odds are you are going to have one built. When you do, make sure that the flange for the turbo you choose mates up. The inside of the header should be coated as well as the outside. This is for heat reasons. Turbos produce heat. Alot of it. You will see your engine compartment temp rise.

I recommend the turbo from a talon or an eclipse. They are Garrett turbos and produce great boost and not too bad on the lag. There are a variety of upgrade kits for these turbos available so if you need more boost later, you have that option without having to get the adapter plates.

You will need to have oil run to the turbo. I believe you mentioned do you need a turbo timer. No, if you allow your engine to idle for about a minute before you shut it off you are fine. All a turbo timer does is allow the engine to run and circulate oil so the bearings in the turbo don’t cook the oil. Remember, turbo's produce alot of heat. Get an oil cooler and run synthetic.

Back to heat, buy an intercooler. Even if its a stock one off of a talon, or wrx or impulse. Compressed air becomes hotter air. An intercooler cools that air. Cool air atomizes better and is more stable. There is no point in putting in more air if it’s hot.

These two items go together. Boost (fun) and detonation (not fun). You will need to run a higher-octane gas than 87 and 89. The intercooler also helps this. Lower octane causes your engine to ping and eventually detonate. This is when the gas will explode will before the spark and the piston will not be in a position for this. I still have my first detonation piston. Cars from the factory run 12 or 14 lbs of boost. The Lancer Evo runs even more. You do not need that kind of boost in your car unless you want to purchase forges internals. Ideal compression is less that 8.4 to 1. If you are higher than this, run less boost. There are a great many LT1 and LS1 camaros and firebirds running turbos, but they have a lot of engine management to combat the higher compression. They have fuel maps and sensors and a lot of dooflachy’s to keep it a runnin’. You have a carb and a distributor.

Which is the next section. Are you going to run your turbo Blow through or suck through? I only recommend blow through. Orig grand nationals were suck though (Fuel went through the turbo on its compression cycle for air) and they were highly unreliable. Blow through is much better. Go find yourself a blower box to encase the carb in.

Buy a cam with a nitrous profile. You are less concerned with the scavenging because you are forcing air into the engine.

RPMS- your car is going to produce a lot more exhaust and a supra 3jz engine. You will spool faster than he does. His engine starts producing boost after 2500rpms. You will do it quicker. I don’t know the specs of your motor but you will not need to spin up to 8 grand to see a difference. Keep it under 6k. Hell, keep it under 5500. One of the best gas turbo engines in the work only hits 4200 rpm’s. It’s the Bentley engine. Turbo Honda motors spin high but they have a lot shorter stroke than you.

For timing, you will have to run massive advance. Your stuck doing your own math though on that one.

People here mentioned twin turbo. Twins do not produce more boost an a single turbo. A 14lb turbo + a 14lb turbo = 14lbs. People run twins because you spool faster with two smaller turbos than with one big one. I know this does not make much sense at first, but the end result of boost is the same. Since turbo lag is not really going to be a problem., forget twins.

Im tired of writing at the moment.

Bobabouey to yall

Dave

Redline on the 194 will depend on what you put in the motor. With a solid roller cam, big springs etc and very good balancing you could probably go safely to 7500 rpm for a shift point. I do not think I would want to do it for extended periods of time however.

there is no reason to run it up to 7500. I would recommend lowering your cars rear gear and keeping the rpms lower. you will be accelerating faster and harder with the turbo engine. the lower rear gear will be compensated because of the more power you are putting through it. If you are going to run 4.11's or higher and need those upper rpm's, you will need alot of work done to the bottom end and the top

Im already planning on running the 194 with at least a 100k miles worth of worn tired parts. :D Also plan on dropping some blow buy and some good healthy leaks. :D Right now I see the low end of 4000 rpms only when the powerglide decides not to shift.:D Was curious about the redline for calculation purposes.

For me the chrysler turbo I think is a better fit as it produces less boost ... less boost is less heat so no intercooler for me.

My plan is to build an adapter from manifold to turbo flange with probably a short piece of tube between it. If it doesn't fit nice under the hood then in place of the muffler it goes.

I am definitely not worried about underhood temperatures with a 6 cylinder.

What I took away from the maximum boost book was that a turbo timer (oil pump or whatever) is not necessary. The quote was "if one lets the engine idle for 30 seconds before shutdown, changes oil every 2000 miles, and uses a high quality oil, turbo lubrication failures are not going to happen"

arndog

Im already planning on running the 194 with at least a 100k miles worth of worn tired parts. Also plan on dropping some blow buy and some good healthy leaks. Right now I see the low end of 4000 rpms only when the powerglide decides not to shift. Was curious about the redline for calculation purposes.

Are you saying that the trans doesnt shift till 4K? Or it should have shifted before 4k?

If i remember Right The Turbo Off the Grand Nat. Is a Garrit TO3 which is good for about 15-20 PSI.(which Is what I have) . As for the Exhaust You Use The Stock Exhaust manifold I have seem Used many times. Also In my hands I have a Blower off a Bonnivile :) yeah wild ideas On hand heheh;)

Turbos Do not need to Rev like think Nore do they Need the High geared rear end So the stock 3:08s Or even lower work Fine with the turbo.

I was giving your plight some thought, and ........


If you want to run low boost have you thought about the following three items?

1. A bike turbocharger. Low boost, quick spool. small and compact. (look for a road rashed hayabusa on the side of the road, chances are they put one one cause 0-60 in 1.3 sec wasnt fast enough)

2. A saab turbo. they come in two varieties. regular boost and light boost(for those frappy chicks who drive convertables and have daisies for wheels)

3. A centrifugal supercharger. Instead of messing with your exhaust manifold, you just have to fab a bracket. Forget roots style or a 3.8 super(either gm or ford), too much room for an ineficient blower. theres a reason they were crap and alll over ebay


bobabouey to yall

dave

the chrysler 2.2 is fairly common and there is a mitsubishi turbo (tdeo4 or something like that) also the saab does seem like a viable option

I was simply saying that the motor I am running it on is a piece of crap and it is backed by a sloppy tranny.

The smaller turbos listed above can be found for less then a 100 bucks (saw a few on ebay) and it seems there should be plenty in the wrecking yards , this coupled with a homemade adapter should yield in the 30 hp (found some turbo calculator on line) range. So back to the 30-35 hp for around 200 bucks is pretty good.

experimenting in my current configuration should yield a solid reliable setup that can be duplicated

The other deciding factor will be the ease of making an adapter. Some of the chrysler turbos have a wacky exhaust flange


arndog

please disregard that fact this is on a honda or an acura ... anyway there are a couple of pictures showing the adapters and the manifold

http://www.homemadeturbo.com/turbo_projects/t25-2/

simple process .. should be fairly cheap

arndog

This seems like a pretty good list

http://thenew.gamesbbs.com/~turbosi/junkyard_turbo_list.html

Sorry to keep sending this thread to the top ... just excited about the idea.

arndog

Turbo Dog...that's what we will call you. I pray for you as you chase the rats and bugs off of the demolition at the wrecking yard .

Godspeed Turbo Dog!

arndog, do you have a turbo car or are you planning on making a turbo car?

If you are not turbo, I am a little concerned. You stated your engine is tired...
Do you still have good compression? You said your trans is sloppy.....is it a late shifter or a slow shifter? If it is, do not turbo your car. Its more than light boost and a flange.

I am very familiar with weber 32/36 dgev and dgas carbs. look at my other car in the sig. There is a trick to these carbs to get them to run rich enough for boost.

Re-read the maximum boost book again. If your engine and trans are toasted, Dont do it. Like I said, I still have my first detonated piston. 22 lbs of boost 550 cc injectors, a 58mm throttle body, turbo header, sequential blow off valve, and two manual boost controllers and still chucked a piston.

the link I put on here with the slant 6 is exactly what Im thinking about doing with the exact same expectations. Running the 194 I have one thing going for me the slant 6 didn't... the smaller turbo is more closely matched to the motor ... what this equates to is a higher probability for running the turbo in its efficient range (lower heat levels)

Id love to know the trick to getting the carbs to run rich. Any idea on solid floats? Also looking for how to get the fuel pump to run at a higher pressure.

From what I can tell with the smaller turbo my cfm requirements aren't going to be that high. I also don't plan on ever redlining it. Having the weber at a slightly higher cfm then stock makes it kind of nice.

If I can get to work well enough (starts, can actually see that the thing is not going to melt, measure the boost) I will swap the tranny. The engine is need of a good excuse to blow up. Once the fabrication steps are done it can easily be moved to a good running 6 cyl.

David you seem to know what your talking about but from what I read I should really see no ill effects if I can get the system plumbed and mounted properly. I would fully expect the entire motor to detonate at 22 psi, hell I would detonate if you put 22 psi in me.

If I deem it necessary I can put a poor mans blow off valve on the intake charge line.

Couple of huge things on my side .... limited boost (less then 8psi )... automatic transmission ... blow through configuration

My goal is a good solid horsepower (~30 hp)/torque gain for little money. The turbo should also greatly increase the torque. Shooting for 10 bucks a horsepower, hopefully less.

arndog

I was keepin an eye on the thread, and had a question about head work, would it be a performance advantage to get the heads worked on with a turbo set up, possibly more exaust flow? not wanting to throw out the ******** for lump porting or a custom head just a little performance.

Arndog,

its not so much how well you install the system, but the stress you will be adding to your internals on your engine. THAT is the critical factor. You may add an extra 30 horses, but you have to remember how much more backpressure you are building and how much more your engine has to work. make sure all your piston rings are good. blowby is exponentially inreased if they are not. thats what I was driving at.

Buy a blow off valve. No question. Only the shelby daytona's didnt use blow off valves. they used the backpressure of the engine. those motors sucked. Most factory turbo cars have a blow off valve that vents back into the intake before the turbo. you can vent internal or external, it wont matter.

thduck- cool name

Your cam is the most important piece of this. Buy a nitrous cam if possible. If you are running low boost the valve size is not as critical as a good free flowing exhaust manifold for low boost. The same applies to you though as arndog, if your engine is beat as bad as Oakland, then do not do this.

ill go into heads for high boost later

thanks david ... can you point me in the direction of the tips for richening up the weber ... how about the floats?

I won't be doing any CAM swaps so I hope I can get it to work right. Ill do a big write up on here when I do or maybe twisted6 has some lowend turbo addition pictures and tips.

I like to do things myself and I like to fabricate things. Im thinking that this project can be done by anybody with moderate skills in his garage. The good thing about turbos is they are old technology its just simple and it works ... much like the leaf spring

Anybody know the internal workings of a 6 cylinder fuel pump enough to know if I can add a pressure reference as described in the slant 6 article.

Thanks,

arndog

what webber carb do you have? I need to know that first.

Dog can't you just increase the pressure in your fuel pump by putting a electric pump behind it and then put a fuel pressure reulator between your mechanical and the carb? Or it that too crazy!!!?

sorry dave, its a DGV 32/36

On the fuel pump thing I hate electrics but if necessary thats cool ... that also adds to the cost.

Im guessing it just has to be required + boost

arndog

To answer a question On Bumping up the exhaust flow Here is a small Low down on the exhaust The stock 1.5 valve only flows about 140 plus cfms. by stepping up to a 1.6 and Doing the port work will bring you into the 170 Plus range. The last Head I just ported ( a mild porting ) flowed out @ 177.6 on the exhaust.

The ultimate turbo site is http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/ , don't let the term "mustang" throw you off, read the knowledge base first, then all the stickys, if you still have questions, re-read it because you missed the answer. :)

arndog, ill send you a pm for adjustment soon as i finish writing it. weber carbs could be taken to offline discussion.

Hey Larry (Twisted 6)

are the 1.6 valves a standard over the counter item? If i take the 194 head into Joe Head Rebuild shop will he be able to build the head adding lumps? Or should I seek out a better (more ****$) head builder?

If I do this right and put the 194 now rebuilt head onto the 250 with a mild cam, 4 barrel and Langdons cast iron split dual headers, what do you thjink I will pull in torque numbers?

Sorry , no mention of a turbo here...hope I have not killed the beast i started. :awkward:

James

the 1.6 is a standard Valve. As for your torque Numbers . everything plays a part in the over all Or even a ball park. Not knowing your cam ,Final compression. And I'm not the one Building this block(meaning Parts List.)
I could only give your maybe a Ruff idea?? But If I had to make a Guess It should get you into the(around the 300ft lbs of torque)?? But as to where / when this would come in Again Not knowing What cam,compression This is only a Guess.

Although not an inline 6 or a Nova, it is still a 6 (4.3 chevy) with a turbo.

Not bad for radial street tires, of course the AWD helps.

http://www.dochoover.com/albums/videos/aaw.mpg

Next summer I want to build a new intake for my 63 nova for fuel injection and prepare for an additional turbo.

Be nice to take the stock motor output and add another 50% or more and get better gas mileage.

I figured I'd jump in here now. I noticed of the picture FatCat posted of the oldsmobile, that it seem to use the same turbo as my 66 Corvair corsa conv. I mean it sure looks close. Well compression ratio on my corvair is 8.1 also corvair did not use a dump valve or waste gate. Boost was controled by a special muffler with restrictions built in. It will still make 22 pounds of boost. I mean in 3rd gear and you mash it to the floor, tack will come up to about 4000 and boost will hit about 15lbs. and then it feels like it just cot passing gear or something. It will pin you back in the seat till you shift into 4th. It is fun. I love turbos.

I am waiting on Arndog to get us some pictures. His method maybe inexpensive, but I bet he gets some natural results in the 35%+ power range.

I might just replace my cam before I install the new 250 in my 65. Is there such thing as a Turbo Cam? What are the advantages of the proper cam with a turbo powering a L6, when it is not meant to take an engine past 5000rpm? I know, I know, it depends on compression and valves too. But if those are stock 1974 stats and I add the right cam, providing I can find this mythical cam.....

Twisted, Dog? Anyone? Bueller?

You can call the guys over at Delta cams I deal with them alot. talk to Jerry or Scott. And just tell them what your plains are.

For those in the NW area, this is a Nova guy that has been fabricating a lot of turbo systems around here lately. He has a 67 Nova (V8 EFI Turbo) that runs low 8's. He also did a Camaro this year thats also running low 8's.

http://www.brianmacy.com/horsepowerconnection.htm
(click on customers rides)

His fabrication skills are excellent, and he knows how to plumb a turbo.

The car's he's done that I have seen were all EFI. Looking around the net, there are some people going with blow through 4-bbl systems, they seem to work pretty good too. Seems like you could get a 4-bbl intake for the 6, build the exhaust header for the turbo, add the intake and exhaust plumbing and go!

If you can't fit an intercooler, alcohol injection is always an alternative:
http://www.alkycontrol.com/

In general turbo cams like to have very little overlap. Since you are pushing the air in, you don't need the scavange effect.

This requires higher lobe seperation angles. Typically in the 112-114 range.

If you login to cam motion website they will spec out a cam based on your information.

I have read where my 66 turbo corvair does use a different cam then most other corvair engines that had a carb. Also anouther thing I found out is the vacuum advance is not really a vacuum advance. It is a pressure retard. The base timing is set at 24 degrees and as boost increases it over comes spring tension in the vacuum retard and starts to decrease timing.

o k guys its been two months , dont keep us waitin. any updates yet?

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30183&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=turbo


http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/index.php?topic=45355



ok guys are we gonna let the f#@$ guys show us up :D
just thought we needed a lil motivation

And here is where the Thread died...If you don't have a good schematic and expecially don't have good fabrication means(skills) it is hard to do this inexpensively.
So, I am planning on working out a deal with one of the Turbo Co's out there to fab a kit and help market it myself.

If this works and there is a market fo it I think the popularity of the Chevy Inline will go up quite a bit. The times call ofr it and heck it is just plane cool!!!

I have also just bought Leo's book and am studying his directions on this as well.

Best of luck to me and with some luck look for my little advertising in the back of Hot Rod Magazine someday soon.

James :D

there is a company making a cast iron exhaust for a turbo for our L6s. Some has posted a link on the Inliners site for That. And It looks to be a Nice peice of work. Also Inclused a waste gate built into it.

Hey Twisted...could not find that turbo manifold with waste gate built in for the Six.

Do you remember the name of the company? I tried search on Inliners.org and Google and still came up empty.
Would love to see this as it could be a key component for research to what I am trying to do. And I am not alone on this ...

Thanks to any and all for info on this Turbo Charged Six Cylinder exhaust manifold/wastegate.

I am going to call Turbo City because they make a kit for the Inlinbe Six in Jeeps and they are a similar set up.

James aka Fred'sgarage.tv

Seems that South America is rich with turbo stuff for the L6. Once I get my engine installed with trans I will be working this out.

Company is called Spa Turbo and they make the exhaust manifold for the inline engine that Innovative sells.

More later Dudes!

http://www.innovativeturbo.com/pages/cart_itemDetails.asp?sku=TMC02

$595 for the exhaust manifold.

I have a 194 sitting on engine stand ready to do this mod. Was going to see what stock motor limit is, then install on my nova backed down a bit and call it good.

too bad my nova lives 2500 miles away from me, and my list of projects is a mile long already. I do have the tools and skills to fab everything though.

that is what ive been lookin for , anybody buy one yet?

Yeah they run alot of turbos. I just got some video from Our L6 racers from Brazil. I'll be adding to my web site soon. Let you know wheni get it posted.

I understand that the Spa Turbo Exhaust Manifold has a waste gate built into it? Or does it have the application for a wastegate? In any case I am wondering if this is built tight to engine to work easily with the first and 2nd gen Chevy II stock shock towers?
From what I have seen of it in photos it looks okay.

Another qustion comes to mind is which turbo and which size. I have a call in to a few different shops and I have told them the engine is 4.2 (250 cid) so they can look at it much like a Buick/Chevy/GMC 4.3 sized application.

I will report my findings here.

James

Twisted you made a post on flow numbers regarding the 194. While Im not willing to source a suitable turbo Im thinking that the one I have might work. My thought is you don't have to match the turbo to the motor you have to match the turbo to the flow. I have a chrysler turbor of a 2.2/2.5 liter that Im going to work with. Again Im on the low low budget side.

Excellent exhaust manifold posted. That would definitely do the trick. I could screw it up a lot of times for 600 bucks though.

Looking for a spare manifold I can destroy :)

arndog

First Arn, I have a spare manifold I will give you if you pay the shipping. It came off of my 74 250 and is near identical to the 65 194 model that is in the car. If i go Spa Turbo i won't need either.

I am going to get my car running stock first and then do the whole turbo thing.

PM me and I will get you details on the shipping if you don't find a donor first..

I made my way over to a local turbo Shop. They fix most cars with turbos, like dielsels and asian cars and attach them to anything else. Guy is an old rodder and says the "pull through" is a brezze to set up in our inlines and will make a huge difference.

I am getting him the spa turbo manifold info, he likes the sound of that too.

With any luck I will be turbo charged by summer.:D

James

thanks for the offer fred. I did a some reading and Im pretty sure that I can't weld to the exhaust manifold (Need some Tig experience) and the arc welding is problematic with the heating and cooling.

So the next idea is to build a log style manifold with the correct flange on it. This has a couple of advantages I can fabricate it myself .... Not limited to any specific placement of the turbo.

Did he give you an idea on how to set up the Pull through?

thanks

arndog

Don't let this idea die. It is a good one. I ran out of money long ago, rebuilding two cars is impossible.

But I vow to get my 250 six 65 Coupe turbo-charged someday. I swear!!!


James

(now near fanatic about a Turbo Charged Inline Six):D

Anyone make a good aftermarket head for the I6?

Thought this was kinda cool, its not a Nova but its a cool turbo I6:D


http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f139/1badd64nova/alt-turbo-b008_4m.jpg

i was gonna say... wait... that's a corvair, not a nova!!!

POwer and econmy is it possible? I think so. Maybe not 30mpgs, however a Turbo-charger tuned right can add to the MPG. If you can keep your foot out of it.
Dose anyone have any experience using the FI off of a small GM V6. Could it be modified or fitten to a inline manifold? This would really help a turbo application run sweet.

:D
James

I have done this to Chevy 250 L6 4 times from scratch and I can tell you, it REALLY WORKS!!!!
You must size the turbo for flow and boost. The ones from small engines like 2.2 or so will NOT WORK. You need one from a Buick GN or similar or an aftermarket of the correct configuration. Turbonetics will tell you just what you need.
The camshafts I have tried were stock, 2 from Isky, one from Comp Cams, and one from Holman and Moody of old stock car fame in Charlotte, NC. The HM cam KILLED the other aftermarket cams. The stock one ran better than any of the others, which was pretty good. I ran my 70 250 4 speed car at the local 1/8 one pass only (time limited) and ran 7.9 something with the stock cam. In fact, I just rebuilt the engine with a TRW Premium Rebuild kit that included pistons and cam-STOCK.
Best book on turbos I ever saw was "How to Select and Install Turbochargers" by Hugh McInnis and published by HP Books. I don't know if it is still available, but I have one copy left and will answer questions from it if you ask.

Vaporloc, the Corvair had a carburetor with a second butterfly that was operated by the boost and closed as boost increased. The Oldsmobile Starfire Turbo V-8 used a very similar carb setup.
The muffler was one of the best flowing mufflers available in the 60's and 70's and had practically no backpressure-turbos hate exhaust backpressure after the turbine.

Sorry for all the posts, but I keep remembering things you guys need to know to do this and not spend a fortune.
I have done draw through and blow through.
The advantage of draw through is it is easy and simple. The only trick parts are to INDEX THE POWER VALVE in the carb and to get it to start when it is cold!!!
The advantage of blow through is you can have a carb in the stock location and easy cold starts. You need about the SAME size carb with the turbo on a blow through as you do without the turbo. The air is compressed, not speeded up that much so more air easily goes through a small hole. The smaller carb will be easier to get a good fuel curve and will not limit power if properly sized. Everyone wants to go too big and if you get enough fuel at WOT, the mid range will suffer and it gets hairy!! You can run a vacuum/pressure line from the carb cover to the side of the fuel pump oposite the fuel side and the boost will make the fuel pressure remain a constant differential to the carb. And use a solid float!!
If you have an aluminum intake, any good machine shop can convert it to fuel injection with parts from many sources from MSD to Accell, many others. You can use the control unit from a SIX CYLINDER Turbo car-like a Buick GN or an aftermarket. I like the Holly 950 Commander for the money.
V-8 and 4 cylinder engines have incompatible numbers of firings per revolution to work on a 6 and are not easily changed. I know a guy using one from a Thunderbird Blower Coupe-NOT a Turbo coupe. The ECU doesn't know what it is on, but you better know how to tune it.
Tom at Turbo City can hook you up with throtle body and computer that will work.
You also need some method to retard the timing as boost come up. If you would like to discuss this, PM and I will.

Robert, would you kindly break down a Turbo parts list?

1) for draw through
2) for Fuel injection
3) for blow through

It would just help us beginners start to assemble the money to purchase the parts.

Thanks for answering all of my own questions. It is great to have an experienced Turbo Head in the crowd.

james:cool:

Okay i am real sure I am going to concentrate on a "Blow Thru" turbo set up for my Inline six.

A little more work but it has many more advantages.


Now I just noticed in this months Hot Rod mag that there is a"blocl mount" EFI Fuel Pump now available from Howard Stewart. It is push rod driven off the camshaft. If this baby works right then using it means no return line, no complicated wiring and no new gas tank.

I think this would be a great help, regardless if i can afford to go EFI but absolutely if I did in combination with the turbo. I wonder if I can adapt it to my 250 Inliner for this purpose?? Hmmmm....;)

If you use the right regulator on a dead head system for efi, that might be nice, but pricey:) If you are doing a carb version, you can use just a stock small block pump with minor modifications to adjust the fuel pressure for the boost.

I think I wll have to start with the carb blow thru system. I know that I have to choose the right carb first. But tell me how mounting a SBC fuel pump (or what else one needs to add) that can help regulate the fuel pressure and I understand that is critical in a Turbo set up?

I wanted to bring this thread back from the grave and see if anyone ever got anywhere with their setups. I've been toying with the idea ever since I saw my buddies' 60 Ranchero with an intercooled turbo 200 and a 5 speed. :D

I ran a Turboed I-6 for a short time till the turbo fell apart. 8psi Blowthrough setup on a 230. Eventually I would like to retool it all and give it another shot.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa245/utedodassrull/Nova001.jpg

http://www.inliners.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=48014&fpart=1

hey i just joined and i was talking with my brother a few months back and he told me he thought that it was nearly impossible to turbo a 6, i am a diesel mechanic and i was just looking for more info to do this to my 77. i have a non integrated head that i just bought. where would i find out more info on how to do this without breaking the bank. any info would be nice. also i was curious to know if i NEEDED a new carb or could i reuse the rebuilt 1bbl? oh and i do have a used clifford 2x2bbl intake would that work?

i have a question. my brother has a i4 iveco diesel with a hx 25 turbo would that work on a 6? it ran at about 8-14 lbs of boost? and where would i find a manifold to take a turbo? any pointers would be nice thanks.

i have a question. my brother has a i4 iveco diesel with a hx 25 turbo would that work on a 6? it ran at about 8-14 lbs of boost? and where would i find a manifold to take a turbo? any pointers would be nice thanks.

HX25 is way too small it looks like, look it up on google and it looks like people are putting those on 2 liter motors! You could use just about any carb with blowthrough you just have to do alot of research and fiddling. It would be way way way easiest to use a Holley 500cfm jobber since the 4 barrel versions are what everyone uses for bigger motors, myself included. Lots of info out there for that.

Take a look in the performance section here, there was a thread going a day or two ago about six cylinder turboing and talking about exhaust manifolds.