cpp r&p ??

i caught wind of a cpp r&p kit being developed here somewhere. anyone know if it will work with their lowers?

Yes it will work with thier stock lowers,no release date as of yet.

awesome!!in time for christmas??it's already on my list!:yes:

will they have the option for power or manual rack?

I like the CBR kit but it only comes manual, and i would like to have power.

will they have the option for power or manual rack?

I like the CBR kit but it only comes manual, and i would like to have power.

I thought it just depended on which rack you bought?

will they have the option for power or manual rack?

I like the CBR kit but it only comes manual, and i would like to have power.

You are wrong, CBR offers a power option:yes::yes:

Burke on this site has the CBR power rack on his 1st gen wagon with an 5.3 LS motor.One clamp is different on the power rack and I think Chuck still has some.Call or PM him.You will be on your own for a pump and plumbing as there are to many posibilities.Personally I like the CBR rack better than what I have seen of the CPP prototype.

Personally I like the CBR rack better than what I have seen of the CPP prototype.
__________________
Me too:yes::yes::yes:

All I can say on the subject is...........

I know the kit CPP is going to be offering is very similar to the one NOGO (Bryan Fargo) has on his car, which you'll be able to read about in the January issue of Super Chevy. The main issue I see with it right now is, it's not available to the public yet and who knows when it will be.

The CBR kit is super clean and fits tight underneath the car. It works great, looks great. I've driven a car with the kit and loved it. The big bonus with the CBR kit is, it's available to the public now. I plan on going the CBR route.

Read post 22 for more info http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118546&page=2

BTW, I'm not bad mouthing the CPP kit, I just don't know enough about it to speak intelligently about it

will they have the option for power or manual rack?

I like the CBR kit but it only comes manual, and i would like to have power.


Here are couple of pictures of our power rack system bolted to the tubular cross member.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj261/67church/novafrontend002-1.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj261/67church/novafrontend001-1.jpg

It is available and the cost is the same as the manual set up.

Im sorry, i was mistakin CBR does have the power rack.

I assume i will need to supply the pump, bracket, and hoses.

Or does CBR have these parts?

I just installed a complete CBR deal on mine, very nice!..:cool:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/GoFastRacer/1962%20Nova/DSCN0199.jpg

CBR UNIT LOOKS LIKE THE WAY I WILL GO !:D:D:D:yes::yes::stir::stir::rotfl::rotfl:

yeah,i like the cbr sys.but i'm not going to scrap my cpp stuff without looking at theirs.:no:

The CPP kit is similar to my design, but they came up with a cleaner mounting system. It will also be budget minded. Dont let looks deceive you, the rack system is proven and works very well. It is also available in manual or power. The steering geometry is also much improved.:yes:

You guys have not seen the CPP prototype...???:confused::eek:

The CPP kit is similar to my design, but they came up with a cleaner mounting system. It will also be budget minded. Dont let looks deceive you, the rack system is proven and works very well. It is also available in manual or power. The steering geometry is also much improved.:yes:

You guys have not seen the CPP prototype...???:confused::eek:

Is it much improved over stock, yours, or the CBR design?

I have my Church Boys kit on order, so I'll be able to at least compare the mini kit to the Church Boys kit. I doubt that I will be disappointed.

MPLS66 get yours ordered and we can make it a swap party!!

thanks nogo,do you have any pics of yours,or spy pics of cpp's kit.thanks,mat:cool:

You guys have not seen the CPP prototype...???:confused::eek:


Has anybody besides you and the guy's at CPP seen it?

Is there a realistic date on when these should be out??? A few weeks, few months or is it potentially outside that?? Would probably make it easier for a few to make up their minds.

Is there a realistic date on when these should be out??? A few weeks, few months or is it potentially outside that?? Would probably make it easier for a few to make up their minds.

It would definatly help me. I was going to go with CBR, but if this kit will be out soon i would definiatly take a look at it (especially if its cheaper).

Just a little FYI, the CBR kit puts the rack in front of the oil pan so you can use any pan you desire to use!..

i like the fact that it shouldn't produce bumpsteer,like others.glad i didn't rush into anything(iv'e been stareing at my cpp kit for about a year)!:D

i like the fact that it shouldn't produce bumpsteer,like others.glad i didn't rush into anything(iv'e been stareing at my cpp kit for about a year)!:D

Bump steer like others:confused::confused:

If or when CP comes out with this it will be interesting to compare it with CBR's head to head and weigh all of the pros and cons of both as well as customer feed back on installation and customer service.I have heard comments on the CPP proto type saying it copied the stock geometry which had no bump steer issues and then later it was stated the the geometry was modified from stock. If the stock geometry was so great why are there so many front end options available for these cars.It is disturbing to hear its coming from a source other than the manufacturer.

If or when CP comes out with this it will be interesting to compare it with CBR's head to head and weigh all of the pros and cons of both as well as customer feed back on installation and customer service.I have heard comments on the CPP proto type saying it copied the stock geometry which had no bumsteer issues and then later it was stated the the geometry was modified from stock. If the stock geometry was so great why are there so many front end options available for these cars.It is disturbing to hear its coming from a source other than the manufacturer.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

as explained to me,the difference in tie-rod length on "outer" r&p's (compared to stock)would result in bumpsteer under hard cornering.wheras a "center" R&P duplicates the stock set-up.i'm building a track/street car,and feel "nogo's"cpp kit may be the deal!:yes:

a geometry change could be as little as +- 0.0001,right?,and for good cause? sounds to me like they are doing their due diligence,better now than later.i'm not trying to bash anyone's products,i'm just sayin'...

as explained to me,the difference in tie-rod length on "outer" r&p's (compared to stock)would result in bumpsteer under hard cornering.wheras a "center" R&P duplicates the stock set-up.i'm building a track/street car,and feel "nogo's"cpp kit may be the deal!:yes:

Track as in road racing or drag racing.

Regardless what system you have you will never get to be with in .0001 Once you start adjusting your Camber you change everything, example look at the length of the adjusting slot for the camber bolt you can change the location by a whole inch! Now a center steer or an outer steer rack is not going to be able to adjust for this.

As far as proven..........our system netted an overall improvement of 2.66 mph thru a slolam coarse set up by Super Chevy. The base line was done on a car that already had some suspension improvements, tubular lowers and using the stock steering. We removed them after the intital test and installed our CBR complete conversion.....rack and tubular lowers, for the end result of the above mentioned gain. It also cut almost a 1/2 second off the time as well.

Now if the stock geometry was the way to go then there would not have been an improvement once our system was in place. In the below pictures you will see the test Wagon........yes a wagon it is being pushed to almost the rims, if the bumpsteer was an issue it would have been noticed. If you are running a specific road race vehicle you will have much stiffer springs rates and not see the amount of lean like you see in the photo.

If or when CP comes out with this it will be interesting to compare it with CBR's head to head and weigh all of the pros and cons of both as well as customer feed back on installation and customer service.I have heard comments on the CPP proto type saying it copied the stock geometry which had no bump steer issues and then later it was stated the the geometry was modified from stock. If the stock geometry was so great why are there so many front end options available for these cars.It is disturbing to hear its coming from a source other than the manufacturer.

My rack kit copied the stock geometry (with a slight change) because I didnt want to try and re-invent the wheel and just wanted to quicken up the steering. There is a point in our front ends where bumpseer begins to increase significantly, but it is not within the normal suspension travel, and does not affect driveability.

CPP has improved my base design in many ways, one being improving geometry and reducing bumpsteer over the stock configuration.

Regardless what system you have you will never get to be with in .0001 Once you start adjusting your Camber you change everything, example look at the length of the adjusting slot for the camber bolt you can change the location by a whole inch! Now a center steer or an outer steer rack is not going to be able to adjust for this.

As far as proven..........our system netted an overall improvement of 2.66 mph thru a slolam coarse set up by Super Chevy. The base line was done on a car that already had some suspension improvements, tubular lowers and using the stock steering. We removed them after the intital test and installed our CBR complete conversion.....rack and tubular lowers, for the end result of the above mentioned gain. It also cut almost a 1/2 second off the time as well.

Now if the stock geometry was the way to go then there would not have been an improvement once our system was in place. In the below pictures you will see the test Wagon........yes a wagon it is being pushed to almost the rims, if the bumpsteer was an issue it would have been noticed. If you are running a specific road race vehicle you will have much stiffer springs rates and not see the amount of lean like you see in the photo.

There is always going to be some amount of measurable bumpsteer. The important factor is where in the suspension travel the bumpsteer occurs and how much.

I drove the wagon with the CBR system and felt bumpsteer directly through the steering wheel. I also measured the bumpsteer and it had more than I would accept. What other people find acceptable may be different- no biggie to me.

The wagon had some other changes that affected the slalom times that you are not bringing up. I am confident to say your steering geometry did not help the slalom times, but steering quickness did.

I cant wait until Super Chevy comes out in two weeks so you can see my slalom times!:eek::devil:

for road racing,and i was exagerating about .0001 being a change!but isn't it??!!:yes:

Can't wait to get the CBR kit into the wagon and take it through the road course at next years Goodguys in Iowa!

Is the CPP kit going to be made in the USA or in China. ;)

Can't wait to get the CBR kit into the wagon and take it through the road course at next years Goodguys in Iowa!

Is the CPP kit going to be made in the USA or in China. ;)

It will be made in the Chinese CPP factory located in Anaheim, CA. Its the same place they make the control ares, hubs, etc. as well.:eek::devil:

My rack kit copied the stock geometry (with a slight change) because I didnt want to try and re-invent the wheel and just wanted to quicken up the steering. There is a point in our front ends where bumpseer begins to increase significantly, but it is not within the normal suspension travel, and does not affect driveability.

CPP has improved my base design in many ways, one being improving geometry and reducing bumpsteer over the stock configuration.



There is always going to be some amount of measurable bumpsteer. The important factor is where in the suspension travel the bumpsteer occurs and how much.

I drove the wagon with the CBR system and felt bumpsteer directly through the steering wheel. I also measured the bumpsteer and it had more than I would accept. What other people find acceptable may be different- no biggie to me.

The wagon had some other changes that affected the slalom times that you are not bringing up. I am confident to say your steering geometry did not help the slalom times, but steering quickness did.

I cant wait until Super Chevy comes out in two weeks so you can see my slalom times!:eek::devil:

As you stated there is a measurable amount of Bumpsteer in every set up. At the very extent of our little novas suspension travel you get the most measurable movement. That said you mention that steering quickness is what was the determining factor in our improvement.....with the original test there was a small aftermarket steering wheel, now we know the affects of this, when we installed our kit we went back to the stock steering wheel. Also our rack kit is 3-3/4 turns lock to lock where as the stock is 4 turns lock to lock, quicker....yes, drastically quicker....No. Other changes..........tires Dale purchased new front tires since the time between testing was long enough that he noticed the tires losing air, for safety reasons he put the new ones on.

You are very excited about your test with the suspension challenge as you should be. Now to compare your times with our times does not show an accurate example or comparison. Your car was set up for this particular reason......Front and rear sway bars 17" wheels and tires, good ones at that, more engine, and not to mention you are not driving a Wagon.

We took a car straight off the street with mild upgrades and tested it before and after, So I would expect that an apple will roll thru the coarse easier and faster than a bannana.

thanks again nogo,mat:cool:

Hey NoGo I have read a few folks asking about seeing pics or a thread about what you did, maybe I missed it but did you start a thread or are holding out for the mag? I am really interested in seeing what you did and how it all installs. Also is yours going on sale? Are we going to have CBR, Your and CPP's now to decide from?

-Justin

see"nogo's official build post",he's passed his design to cpp,just waiting to see the finished product.:yes:

Hey NoGo I have read a few folks asking about seeing pics or a thread about what you did, maybe I missed it but did you start a thread or are holding out for the mag? I am really interested in seeing what you did and how it all installs. Also is yours going on sale? Are we going to have CBR, Your and CPP's now to decide from?

-Justin

During the Suspension Challenge, I took a load of photographs, as well as video footage. It was an awesome day, to be around some of the best suspension people in the industry. Unfortunately , they made me sign disclosure agreements to not display the said pictures and video until the magazine hits the stands!! Sorry to all who want to see them. Soon, soon, soon.

Dale

when is the mag coming out?

As you stated there is a measurable amount of Bumpsteer in every set up. At the very extent of our little novas suspension travel you get the most measurable movement. That said you mention that steering quickness is what was the determining factor in our improvement.....with the original test there was a small aftermarket steering wheel, now we know the affects of this, when we installed our kit we went back to the stock steering wheel. Also our rack kit is 3-3/4 turns lock to lock where as the stock is 4 turns lock to lock, quicker....yes, drastically quicker....No. Other changes..........tires Dale purchased new front tires since the time between testing was long enough that he noticed the tires losing air, for safety reasons he put the new ones on.


Dale's wagon not only had new front tires, but tires 4 sizes larger. There was also a much larger front sway bar, drop spindles, and new springs. All these factors as well as your rack unit helped with the slalom time. Give your rack quickness more credit- Im pretty sure the stock steering box is about 5 turns lock to lock (been too long:yes:).

Hey NoGo I have read a few folks asking about seeing pics or a thread about what you did, maybe I missed it but did you start a thread or are holding out for the mag? I am really interested in seeing what you did and how it all installs. Also is yours going on sale? Are we going to have CBR, Your and CPP's now to decide from?

-Justin

My design is now being refined and will be sold through CPP. I wish I had the time and capital to do it myself, but thats the way it goes! It was fun building it though!

when is the mag coming out?

Its the January issue due out in two weeks.

can't wait!beyond your r&p could you give me a breif overveiw of your front end mods?i had been running 235/60-14's(all 4),global's lock-outs,poly everwhere,and big-block springs.and it was a huge improvement over stock,but i want MORE!also disc's all around,any thoughts on a pbr coversion?:cool:

Dale's wagon not only had new front tires, but tires 4 sizes larger. There was also a much larger front sway bar, drop spindles, and new springs. All these factors as well as your rack unit helped with the slalom time. Give your rack quickness more credit- Im pretty sure the stock steering box is about 5 turns lock to lock (been too long:yes:).

4 turns lock to lock on our stock 64SS.

I do not have the information on the front tires other than they were new. You would know since you were there at the time of testing, I was not. The test and article was not just about a single component, it was about our Rack and Pinion conversion "kit". I guess the success you had at the shoot out had nothing to do with the 17" wheels and expensive performance tires,13" brakes, larger than stock, stock replacement sway bar, sway bar in the rear, and the fact that a payed driver handled the driving duties.

Again our success was not with a purpose built vehicle it was a street car in street trim, and you can not deny the improvements our kit makes to any Nova, purpose built or street.



My design is now being refined and will be sold through CPP. I wish I had the time and capital to do it myself, but thats the way it goes! It was fun building it though!



Its the January issue due out in two weeks.

Congrats on getting some ink with your car. Debate about steering or not your car deserves some attention.

Im suprised your 64 has 4 turns- I swear it was more:confused:. My current setup is power and 3 turns lock to lock- its SUPER quick! The manual kit I did is 4.

I did not want to start a debate about whose car was faster. It is obvious they cannot be compared. I built my car to be street friendly (although a bit harsh), and track worthy. Bench seat, full trim and all! It was also built on the cheap- no big $ parts for me (unless I got hooked up:devil:).

The slalom driver at the event I belive was the same guy you did the test with. :yes: The guest driver did the autocross. I appreciate the kudos buddy-I got a good opportunity and made the best of it!

Anyone have an update at all abou thow long until CPP comes out with this new kit????

1 month, 1 year, 3 years?????

I am sure NOGO will let us know when it will be available.