Mini-tubbing tire size?

I am curious to see if anybody has been successfully able to stuff a MT ET Street 325/50 - 15 with a mini-tub underneath the back of their car, with leaf springs. I have called several places and they do not know. I test-fitted the tire underneath the car with the leaf spring hanging loose, and it looked like it may rub, but the tire has yet to be mounted on the rim.

The section width is a bit smaller on the 325/50 than a 315/60 (approx. .4" according to summit) and should have a little better fit inside the wheel well. It is also 2" shorter, but obtains the same tread width.

I am hoping to see if I can take the cheaper way out and just move the leaf springs in/offset hangers and not have to 4-link it. Thanks for any help.

I sure as heck hope so :yes:. I'm in the middle of a minitub and the tire/wheel fits into the wheelwheel fine. I haven't tried the leaf yet. If it is too tight I'll try and offset the bushings in the front some by trimming one side and shimming the other to help move them over some.

John

Yea, I'm just trying to see if anybody has had to offset the front hangers any. If so, where would you find something like this? :confused: :confused: :confused:

No one? Anybody?

No offset fronts on mine. These fit on my 73......BFG G Force T/A Drag Radials P325-50R-15
Mounted once and used for 3 pass's , then installed the slicks. :yes:

No offset fronts on mine. These fit on my 73......BFG G Force T/A Drag Radials P325-50R-15
Mounted once and used for 3 pass's , then installed the slicks. :yes:

Are these them?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BFG-53931/

yes... But I didnt pay that MUCH for them...:eek:

yes... But I didnt pay that MUCH for them...:eek:

Do you mind me asking how much clearance you have in between your tire and the front of the leaf spring? Are your tires right up against the fender lip? Did you narrow your rear any?

yes the rear was narrowed during the mini tub. I never measured the clearance issues..:confused:

Here is an older pic that was taken right after we re did the suspension, with a wider tire, I now run on a 9 inch slick . We have since installed an Anti roll bar and relocated the shock again

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/johnh_013/NOVAAlmostdone009.jpg

yes the rear was narrowed during the mini tub. I never measured the clearance issues..:confused:

Here is an older pic that was taken right after we re did the suspension, with a wider tire, I now run on a 9 inch slick . We have since installed an Anti roll bar and relocated the shock again

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/johnh_013/NOVAAlmostdone009.jpg

Hmm, doesn't look like any kind of clearance issue at all. What is the tire size in this, the 325/50?

http://www.mandhtires.com/store.php?crn=73&rn=317&action=show_detail

That tire was a M&H Racemaster N50-15
Tread Width: 11.0"
Section Width: 12.8"
Diameter: 28.2"

http://www.mandhtires.com/store.php?crn=73&rn=317&action=show_detail

That tire was a M&H Racemaster N50-15
Tread Width: 11.0"
Section Width: 12.8"
Diameter: 28.2"

Awesome, thanks for the help johnh. Those are only .2" smaller in section width than mine. I'm really hoping my mockup was way off. I'd love to save about $2k on the suspension.

If you don't mind me asking, did you narrow the housing yourself?

No I did not. It was narrowed already when I purchaced the car.

No I did not. It was narrowed already when I purchaced the car.

Thanks again. One more question, what kind of shocks are you using? I was thinking of just using the shocks that I had before as they are fairly new, but am unsure of the rate, or anything else about them.

Those are Rancho's from Calvert racing. www.calvertracing.com :yes:

What are your plans with the car?

Those are Rancho's from Calvert racing. www.calvertracing.com :yes:

What are your plans with the car?

Thanks again.

Application is street/strip with emphasis on strip. I will be dropping in a 454 (sbc), 18* headed engine in the future, :yes:

What else have you done or plan on doing to the suspension?

John,

Did you move the front leaf over? The back I can see is moved way over. Much further over than an offset shackle would yield. Almost looks like the front has been moved too.

Thanks,
John

Negative on the front....:no:

Hmm. How far did you actually move the back over? I didn't really take notice of how much it was moved over. The offset shackles that I am looking at only move it about 2 1/2" over.

It's not over that much, keep in mind my frame was knotched as well.
I may have for gotten to mention that..oops!

Why are you dead set on shackles for a strip car?

It's not over that much, keep in mind my frame was knotched as well.
I may have for gotten to mention that..oops!

Why are you dead set on shackles for a strip car?

Not dead set on shackles, just am not confident in my welding abilities 100% for a slider setup. They look alto easier too. I have my frame notched too. How far did you push it over exactly, and did you fabricate it all yourself?

Dude when it came to the rear suspension, I WROTE A CHECK! But I was there every day during construction to learn, Next car I will do my self.
The slider bracket fab was easy watching some else do it. But I am alittle more confident in the next one I will do.
Not sure on how far it was moved.

Dude when it came to the rear suspension, I WROTE A CHECK! But I was there every day during construction to learn, Next car I will do my self.
The slider bracket fab was easy watching some else do it. But I am alittle more confident in the next one I will do.
Not sure on how far it was moved.

Wish I could do the same, but I learn better by doing. Thanks for the help.

Didnt help much. Have fun and B safe. Keep this updated. :yes:

Hmm. How far did you actually move the back over? I didn't really take notice of how much it was moved over. The offset shackles that I am looking at only move it about 2 1/2" over.

I'm about to start a mini tub project myself and from what I've seen a common offset for the rear shackles is 1 3/4". Detroit Speed and Engineering's set, which are nice, but pretty pricey at $275 are 1 3/4". In an article in Super Chevy magazines Nova special edition, for the fall of 2002, the fabricator made his with the same 1 3/4" offset. Another option that has been around for quite some time is Competition Engineerings Offset Spring Hangers, part number C2032. They actually offset the rear spring mounts 4" which seems like a lot but their hangers have been around awhile so they must work. If you click on the link to the instructions for this part on their site a diagram shows that the factory spring setup actually mounts the springs "pigeon toed", closer together in the front than in the rear. Offsetting the rear spring mounts by whatever method straightens them up. The fronts don't need to be relocated just pivoted. The only thing that I'm not sure about with their hangers is the fact that it looks like they lower the shackle mount which would raise the rear end of the car for that jacked up look, not what I'm looking for. I'd sure like to hear from someone who has used them. Actually, I guess they're pretty similar to the way johnh's Nova is set up except they still use the shackles.

http://www.competitionengineering.com/catalog/CategoryDisplay.asp?CatCode=10021

yes the rear was narrowed during the mini tub. I never measured the clearance issues..:confused:

Here is an older pic that was taken right after we re did the suspension, with a wider tire, I now run on a 9 inch slick . We have since installed an Anti roll bar and relocated the shock again

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/johnh_013/NOVAAlmostdone009.jpg

How does your car ride? It looks like the way you solidly mounted the rear spring eye you've eliminated the shackles altogether. Is your car primarily used at the track or does it see street time as well? Leaf springs have an arch, when the front eye is solidly mounted, as in a stock set up, the shackles are in the rear to compensate for compression or decompression, lengthening or shortening of the spring. If you solidly mount the front AND rear, the spring has nowhere to move, that seems like it would be stressing the springs and mounts, in turn, affecting the ride, and the way the car launches. In your avitar it looks like you're launching pretty damn good, so if it works, it works, I'm just curious.

The rears aren't solidly mounted, he has sliders installed.

Here is a pic of the slider mounts that take the place of shackles.

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu291/david467/SpringSlider.jpg

This is what is used on johnh' car and what Dan_Lebherz is refering to.

The rears aren't solidly mounted, he has sliders installed.

Thanks, I couldn't imagine them being solidly mounted, I've never seen those before. They're pretty much "strip only" use aren't they?

Here is a pic of the slider mounts that take the place of shackles.

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu291/david467/SpringSlider.jpg

This is what is used on johnh' car and what Dan_Lebherz is refering to.

Thanks for the picture, those are new to me.

My rear is 69 Z-28, uncut, I might mini this winter, tires are 235/60/15, wheels-15X8 5.5BS, tires rub ever so slightly, have the winter to take care of this and other thinks because of the stinkin winter

How does your car ride? . Is your car primarily used at the track or does it see street time as well? . In your avitar it looks like you're launching pretty damn good, so if it works, it works, I'm just curious.

As of 2009 my Nova has seen very little street time any more. This year I started racing it every Friday Night in a class at our local track.
My car rides rough on the street in race mode. But I can make some changes to the shocks and preload settings on the Caltrac bars with ease to make it ride MUCH smoother on the street.
Best of a 1.350 60 foot times on 9 inch slicks, It works OK for now.

This is the picture I used for my Avitar and was a 1.4X 60' back in May.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/johnh_013/WHEELSUPBABY-1.jpg

In case any of you were still wondering, I finished the tub. This is what it looks like now:

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9232/pa100009.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8758/pa100007.jpg
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/3151/wheels2.jpg
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/3479/pa100011.jpg

I had to fabricate front spring mounts because the backspacing on my wheels required the rear to be narrowed more than the spring mounts would fit. Ended up moving them inwards in the front about 2 inches each. Definitely not professional, but works for me so far. It sits pretty high too. Will probably get some lowering blocks.

It Defiantly sits a little high...
Is the front new as well? You did say this was going to be more of a strip car didnt you?

It Defiantly sits a little high...
Is the front new as well? You did say this was going to be more of a strip car didnt you?

Front tires/rims are new, but everything suspension wise is stock. Yea, it will be a street/strip car with emphasis on strip. The front spring mounts had to be placed right under the rear frame rails which is why it's sitting so high.

In case any of you were still wondering, I finished the tub. This is what it looks like now:

I had to fabricate front spring mounts because the backspacing on my wheels required the rear to be narrowed more than the spring mounts would fit. Ended up moving them inwards in the front about 2 inches each. Definitely not professional, but works for me so far. It sits pretty high too. Will probably get some lowering blocks.

mrdreex ... Do you have a pic of the tubs from inside the trunk? If I recall from an earlier post you used the Autoweld tubs ... I'm curious how they look.

On another note ... you need to drop that thing into the weeds ... it will look bitchin' with those wheels.

Sorry to jump off of the subject a little bit here, but I am planning on moving my springs in and shocks, and I see the shocks on you guys cars in different locations. I see them both on the backside of the rearend and on the front of the rearend. I have seen them straight up and down and canted in. Can anyone tell me what is the best configuration (behind or in front of the rearend)? I have seen inboard shock kits that locate the shocks in all different locations. Does it make a difference at all? I was going to start ordering stuff and the Caltracs need to be ordered staggered or both shocks front or back and I can't decide where to put the shocks. Thanks guys. Love your minitubbed Novas.

mrdreex ... Do you have a pic of the tubs from inside the trunk? If I recall from an earlier post you used the Autoweld tubs ... I'm curious how they look.

On another note ... you need to drop that thing into the weeds ... it will look bitchin' with those wheels.

Yes, I do, but not with me right now. I will find it later. But, I will tell you they look good.

Yes. I agree 100%. I have to take the rear out to get a leak fixed on my driver side axle tube and will probably put osme lowering blocks in there. I don't know how much though. I'm thinking 2" - 3". Is that reasonable? What about front shocks/springs? How much can I lower that? No experience in this area. Want to keep it stiff for when I get to the strip and eventually go wheels up.

Sorry to jump off of the subject a little bit here, but I am planning on moving my springs in and shocks, and I see the shocks on you guys cars in different locations. I see them both on the backside of the rearend and on the front of the rearend. I have seen them straight up and down and canted in. Can anyone tell me what is the best configuration (behind or in front of the rearend)? I have seen inboard shock kits that locate the shocks in all different locations. Does it make a difference at all? I was going to start ordering stuff and the Caltracs need to be ordered staggered or both shocks front or back and I can't decide where to put the shocks. Thanks guys. Love your minitubbed Novas.

DREDNOT, I am not sure what the optimum shock angle is, but as long as you're not binding, I think you will be OK within reason. Ex. don't have your shocks going inwards/outwards at 90 degrees or something radical looking. That exerts the load in a much different way than designed. I *think* some manufacturers have different shock angles and it varies. I'm no expert on this though, it's just what's logical to me.

The shock location is from the relocation kit that I purchased. I don't think there is an optimum place to put it. From my kit, it would be a bit difficult to put my shocks in front of the rear as there is very little room left to fit anything under there.

Yes, I do, but not with me right now. I will find it later. But, I will tell you they look good.

Yes. I agree 100%. I have to take the rear out to get a leak fixed on my driver side axle tube and will probably put osme lowering blocks in there. I don't know how much though. I'm thinking 2" - 3". Is that reasonable? What about front shocks/springs? How much can I lower that? No experience in this area. Want to keep it stiff for when I get to the strip and eventually go wheels up.


Stiff is not the answer..... :no:

Stiff is not the answer..... :no:

Edumacate me. I know nothing. :yes:

those wheels look ridiculously good on your nova. with a two or so inch drop, the stance would be perfect. I hope you dont mind this visualization

http://www.metroplexdeals.com/tmp/pa100009lowered.jpg

I had to fabricate front spring mounts because the backspacing on my wheels required the rear to be narrowed more than the spring mounts would fit. Ended up moving them inwards in the front about 2 inches each. Definitely not professional, but works for me so far. It sits pretty high too. Will probably get some lowering blocks.

let me ask, if the wheels had more backspace, could you have gotten away with not touching the front spring mounts?

whats the advantage of a narrow rear end + less backspace VS a regular rear end + more backspace???

Im seriously thinking about doing that minitub now (those 325s look bad)but only want to do the back offset shackles and the shock relocate. btw, how did you relocate the shocks?

btw, why are dse offset shackles so GD expensive. $275? thats robbery

let me ask, if the wheels had more backspace, could you have gotten away with not touching the front spring mounts?

whats the advantage of a narrow rear end + less backspace VS a regular rear end + more backspace???

Im seriously thinking about doing that minitub now (those 325s look bad)but only want to do the back offset shackles and the shock relocate. btw, how did you relocate the shocks?

btw, why are dse offset shackles so GD expensive. $275? thats robbery

Dude. Nice job with the PS morph. I like it. Maybe a little less of a drop than that though, maybe 1"?

With more backspacing, I would have gotten away with probably not having to move my front spring mounts inwards. Having so little backspacing forced the axle tubes to be alot shorter and limiting where the spring mount/perch could be welded on. Not sure of the advantage other than not having to move your front spring mounts inwards. That's a pain.

The shocks were relocated with a kit from BRP Hotrods (found from another member on here). Came with an upper crossmember that was bolt in, but they also sell a weld in one. I probably should have gotten that one. It's a BUNCH cheaper. The kit came with lower spring/shock mounts, bolts, and the upper crossmember. Also nicely powdercoated silver. Looks very nice.

They're expensive because they're billet and CNC machined. Smith Racecraft sells the exact same things, and man, those things are BEEFY. They quit making them though because they're expensive to produce. Smith Racecraft sells fabricated ones now, which I have. They're a bunch cheaper ($150 or so), lighter, and just as strong. Win/win to be honest.

Bro, I got everything back from the shop. The crank is OK. I got the whole bottom end in tonight as well as degreed the cam back in. It's all just a matter of bolting things on now. Should be back in business next weekend at the latest. Got a vacuum pump from GZ Motorsports on the way too! Should be here next week Mon/Tues. Say bye-bye to oil leaks, and some extra HP.

My rear is 69 Z-28, uncut, I might mini this winter, tires are 235/60/15, wheels-15X8 5.5BS, tires rub ever so slightly, have the winter to take care of this and other thinks because of the stinkin winter

depenping on what wheel you have you might can have that wheel company build you another wheel with a little more off set, if you have room to go inword

something like this???

http://www.metroplexdeals.com/tmp/novaheight2.jpg

is the smith shock relocate kit $150, or is that just the offset shackles? their website does not make that clear

something like this???

http://www.metroplexdeals.com/tmp/novaheight2.jpg

is the smith shock relocate kit $150, or is that just the offset shackles? their website does not make that clear

Sick. Yea, that rear height is pretty good. Probably go a bit lower in the front. Are you guesstimating, or are you doing some crazy math to come up with those proportions? ;P

Actually, the Smith shock relocate kit wouldn't work for me, and, it's built for a Camaro, which I *believe* has shorter frame rails (or wider, don't remember which). Plus, that shock kit requires the shocks to be at a specific angle (can't remember exactly). It was very limiting for what i needed to do since my rear would be narrowed considerably.

Their shackles are $150, un-powder-coated. I think they're a little bit more powder-coated. Still pretty expensive for some bent steel and some angle steel welded on, if you ask me. But, also better than their billet counterparts.

sadly, Im guesstimating, though one could probably make a grid in ps where 28 lines make up the tire(28") and just drop the whole body one grid.

pm me your email and I'll send you one thats dropped a bit more in the front -gotta love photoshop